In Reply to: Those numbers posted by Sargent on Sunday, 7. November 2004 at 08:13 Bali Time:
Did I write 1975-79? I meant 1979- 1999. Most reports say 250,000 in East Timor. You're right though... they weren't all shot, but the deaths were due to problems caused by the conflict. And at least 900 people died in the Dili Massacre. Still, Xanana seems to have gotten over it -- but I'm sure he's following some agenda.
Add about a million communists in the 60's.
Add about 100,000 in Aceh and Papua. Gam was not entirely inactive in Aceh, and the military certainly weren't.
That leaves about 650,000 over 30 odd years, say 20,000 per year in regional conflicts, private vendettas, running people out of their villages to clear land for forestry, mining and building dumbass crap like Taman Mini.
Yeh... the figures might be inflated slightly, but not outrageously.
And I know Indonesia's courts have cleared a lot of people who were on corruption charges. Because the courts were corrupt as well. That's part of the problem.
Oh... and I think the $47 billion I quoted is in Australian dollars. So about US$30-35 billion. A bloody lot, anyway.
The facts never came from Indonesian media. That's the last place I'd look for accurate reporting before 1999 and in the last year or so (yes, the good old days are coming back, but not to the same extent). NGO's like International Crisis Group, the HRC, and Indo watch have amassed mountains of data on all the crap that has gone down in Indonesia. So have international Governments -- they've just chosen not to act on it because of all the oil, gold, silver, tin and other fancy stuff that their companies are bleeding out of Indonesia.
Which reminds me that you said Suharto helped economic growth. I disagree. Indonesia is one of the most resource-rich countries on the planet, and that wealth has been largely squandered and stolen for the past forty years. Compared to what Singapore and Malaysia have achieved with less during the same period (and with Malaysia facing many similar problems), Suharto's economic record doesn't look so flash.
And Kofi Annan's predecessors wanted to do something about Suharto for years, especially during the East Timor conflict. The US prevented the UN from acting for as long as possible, and still sold counter-insurgency equipment to them while Australia's troops were getting ready to act as peacekeepers.
Finally, I think this is the perfect forum to voice concerns over potential problems in Indonesia, because the people who read this forum have an interest in that country and can make their voices heard in the countries that are aiding and abetting some of the problems. And they also have an opportunity to debate the topic and point out flaws in the arguments.